Islam and terror

Travel Forums Off Topic Islam and terror

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221. Posted by Brendan (Respected Member 1824 posts) 12y Star this if you like it!

I think religions are important, because it helps people, or at least they are ment to help people, to stop focusing on the self. One common denominator to all religions is the self is not paramount. With monotheistic religions the focus is on the creator, the God figure, who is in control "We live in God's world", it is not our world, it is God's world". With polytheistic religions many dieties and gods are the controllers of different aspects of the world. Same idea "we live under the will of the gods". This isn't our world to plunder at our will.

My point, regardless of the religion, and despite if you believe what they say or not, they bring to light an idea that there are things in the universe far more important that "us".

As mentioned above, the problem lies with the corruption of religion (as with everything else).

222. Posted by wotthefiqh (Inactive 1447 posts) 12y Star this if you like it!

Pope Benedict XVI, a 79 year old celibate man, shows more cojones than any Western politician by simply stating some obvious facts about Islam.
The reaction was as expected, namely mindless violence and calls for his murder and the destruction of the West.
A faith/culture bereft of reason.

As for his so-called apology,in Italian Pope Benedict said only 'sono rammaricato', which translates as "I am disappointed" or "I regret", and this only referred to the response of the Islamic world, not to the content of his speech.

I would expect that the Pope knew exactly what he was saying and wasn't surpised by the death threats emanating from the Ummah.

I hope he keeps shirt-fronting Islam for it's institutionalised violence and concept of jihad (holy war), because it is a direct threat to the western democratic world.

223. Posted by Jase007 (Respected Member 8870 posts) 12y Star this if you like it!

It's a pity that the Pope didn't also mention that the Catholic church is also a religion who's power has been built up over the years by plundering, raping, murder, tourcher, exploitation as well (just for that balanced view).

224. Posted by wotthefiqh (Inactive 1447 posts) 12y Star this if you like it!

Lord Carey, the former Archbishop of Canterbury, expressed it perfectly.

‘We are living in dangerous and potentially cataclysmic times,’ he said. ‘There will be no significant material and economic progress [in Muslim communities] until the Muslim mind is allowed to challenge the status quo of Muslim conventions and even their most cherished shibboleths. Islam’s borders are bloody and so are its innards. The fundamental problem for the West is not Islamic fundamentalism. It is Islam, a different civilisation whose people are convinced of the superiority of their culture and are obsessed with the inferiority of their power.’

225. Posted by Brendan (Respected Member 1824 posts) 12y Star this if you like it!

Quoting wotthefiqh

...a different civilisation whose people are convinced of the superiority of their culture...

Sounds a lot like "The West".

226. Posted by wotthefiqh (Inactive 1447 posts) 12y Star this if you like it!

Slighty different version of the folk song written in 1877 by Percy French.

There are heroes of fame
With sword or a dame
In ranks that are led by the Czar,
But a man you'd applaud,
At home or abroad, was Ivan Skivinsky Skavar.

He could instigate brawls,
Lead charges or balls,
And play on the Spanish Guitar,
In fact, quite the cream
Of the Muskovite Team,
Was Ivan Skivinsky Skavar.

The Sons of The Prophet
Are brave men and bold,
And quite unacustomed to fear.
They can ride a wild stallion,
Ambush a battalion,
Or blow the froth off a beer.

But needing a man
To encourage the van,
To harass the enemy's rear,
Or to charge a redoubt,
You'd always send out
For Abdul The Bulbul Amir.

One day the Bold Russian
Donned his best Fustian
And bared his most truculent sneer;
Downtown for a treat,
He sullied the sheet,
Of Abdul The Bulbul Amir!

"Young Man!" Quoth The Bulbul,
"Has your life grown so dull
That you're anxious
To end your career?
Your Infidel feet
Have just trampled the sheet
Of Abdul The Bulbul Amir!"

So take your last look at the sunshine and brook
And send your regrets to the Czar
For by this I imply, you are going to die,
Count Ivan Skavinsky Skavar.

Then this bold Mameluke drew his trusty skibouk,
Singing, "Allah! Il Allah! Al-lah!"
And with murderous intent he ferociously went
For Ivan Skavinsky Skavar.

They parried and thrust, they side-stepped and cussed,
Of blood they spilled a great part;
The philologist blokes, who seldom crack jokes,
Say that hash was first made on the spot.

They fought all that night neath the pale yellow moon;
The din, it was heard from afar,
And huge multitudes came, so great was the fame,
Of Abdul and Ivan Skavar.

As Abdul's long knife was extracting the life,
In fact he was shouting, "Huzzah!"
He felt himself struck by that wily Kalmuck,
Count Ivan Skavinsky Skavar.

The Sultan drove by in his red-breasted fly,
Expecting the victor to cheer,
But he only drew nigh to hear the last sigh,
Of Abdul Abulbul Amir.

There's a grave
Where the wave
Of the Blue Danube rolls,
And on it
Is graven so clear:
"Tempest in fleeting,
Don't step on the sheeting
Of Abdul The Bulbul Amir!"

A Muskovite Maiden
Her lone vigil keeps
Where The Volga
And vodka go far,
And the name she repeats
When a ghost tugs her sheets,
Is "Ivan Skivinsky Skavar!"

227. Posted by wotthefiqh (Inactive 1447 posts) 11y Star this if you like it!

Quoting Peter

Quoting wotthefiqh

For Northern Ireland, read Post # 185 in this thread.

The "Ten Hutu Commandments" are a good start. I think you can recognise the religious overtones.

Have a read of this article if you actually care.

In particular, this statement is what I am referring to:

"The language of the "Ten Commandments" was intended to prepare the grounds for genocide in a predominantly "Christian" country. Such articles of faith-cum-instructions reflected an ethnocentric theory made public."

Those Ten Commandments bear a chilling resemblence to another group currently committing genocide in Uganda: The Lord's Resistance Army. Nice name for a bunch of mass-murderers huh?

If you consider extreme Islam a problem, perhaps you should meet extreme Christianity. Then realise that in fact religion is not why either are doing what they do.

Hitler was nationalism on a world scale

Yes, but Hitler too used scriptures to justify his genocide of the Jews.

Finally, I'd like to make the point that to suggest that Islam is to blame for terrorism is not far removed from saying that Christianity is responsible for the tens of thousands dead in Iraq. And I for one would hate for Christianity to be held responsible for that.

Let's check the Hutu 10 commandments -

The Hutu Ten Commandments created by the producer of hate newspaper Kagura, Hassan Ngeze. First published in December, 1990 (Kangura, N. 6).

1. Tutsi are blood and power thirsty. They want to impose their hegemony on the Rwandan people by cannon and sword.

2. Ever Since the social revolution of ?59 not one day has passed that the Tutsi have let go of the idea of reconquering power in Rwanda and exterminating the intellectuals and dominating the Hutu agriculturists.

3. Tutsi use two means against Hutu: money and Tutsi women.

4. Tutsi sold their wives and daughters to the Hutu authorities. Tutsis tried to marry their wives to Hutu elite in order to have spies in the inner circle.

5. Tutsis did everything they could to erase the Hutu consciousness to the point that any Hutu that noticed the diabolical actions of the Tutsi was fired from their job without warning and thrown into jail.

6. Hutus must know that the Tutsi wife wherever she may be is serving the Tutsi ethnic group. In consequence, any Hutu who does the following is a traitor:
a) Acquires a Tutsi wife
b) Acquires a Tutsi concubine
c) Acquires a Tutsi secretary protégé

7. All Hutus must know that all Tutsis are dishonest in business. Their only goal is ethnic superiority.

8. The Rwandan Armed Forces (FAR) must be exclusively Hutu. The war in 1990 teaches us this lesson.

9. No military man (i.e., FAR soldier) may marry a Tutsi woman.

10. The Hutu must stop taking pity on the Tutsi.

They bear No rememblance to the 10 commandments I learnt in sunday school in the late 50's/early 60's, and don't match any I have found in the king James I? bible.
Just because some genocidal tribal mass-murderer uses the expression '10 commandments' don't mean squat.
The Hutu and Tutsi have probably been killing each other before Jesus played left-back for Nazareth United, so your analogy is a nonsense.
As for Hitler, please quote chapter and verse of his love of bible quotation.
I haven't read Mein Kampf since I was 17, so perhaps I missed the 'bring the children to me'. I would expect that 'turn the other cheek' would be 'turn the Panzers around and get back to Kursk'.
This thread is 'Islam and Terror'.

228. Posted by Brendan (Respected Member 1824 posts) 11y Star this if you like it!

I think we need a recap (or maybe we don't) on what your point is . I mean this in a nice way, you are saying that the entire Islamic religion is associated with Terrorism?

If so, you are wrong - no question about it.

229. Posted by Jase007 (Respected Member 8870 posts) 11y Star this if you like it!

To label all people of one faith as a terrorist, is also to lable every person of faith a terrorist.
As those terror actions are usually carried out in the name of - GOD. All those faiths that have a God(s) have a link (GOD) and at some time through history have carried out attocities in that name.

230. Posted by Peter (Admin 6519 posts) 11y Star this if you like it!

Quoting wotthefiqh

The Hutu and Tutsi have probably been killing each other before Jesus played left-back for Nazareth United, so your analogy is a nonsense.

Now there's a delayed reaction ;) This thread is a bit like a bone that a dog remembers to dig up every few weeks and chew on a little. In my opinion it should remain buried ;)

I very much doubt that the Hutu/Tutsi problem existed even before the last century. For starters, they are virtually indistinguishable racially and many are of the opinion that it is a class distinction that led to the seperation. Secondly, a lot of their problems (and the problems in Africa generally) are a direct consequence of western colonialism of the last century, not ancient tribal disagreements.

As for Hitler, please quote chapter and verse of his love of bible quotation.

Why don't you just google 'Hitler's use of Bible'? You'll find plenty of results. This is not a new topic.

Here's one quote from Mein Kampf to keep you happy though:

"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.."

Could just as easily be a quote from Hezbollah don't you think? How little has changed..

Oh, and I'm pretty sure Jesus would have been a striker.

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