Travelling to US with a criminal record in the UK

Quoting leics2

> I’m still not sure if I have a criminal record due to this,

If you were cautioned, attended a magistrate's court and received a fine you were indeed arrested and were convicted of a crime. Fare evasion is a criminal offence and that's why the court lady said you'd probably have a criminal record.

Being cautioned means you were under arrest. Handcuffs and being taken elsewhere aren't relevant.

You went to court rather than just pay a fixed penalty so it's very likely the US would consider your fare evasion to be fraud and thus a 'crime involving moral turpitude':

https://unlock.org.uk/advice/identifying-whether-my-offence-is-a-crime-involving-moral-turpitude-cimt/

Being convicted of a CIMT means a person is ineligible to enter the US without a visa and a 'waiver of ineligibility'.

It's up to you whether you use an Esta or not, though you should be aware that making a false declaration can be a US criminal offence.

>I’m guessing if my criminal check came back as flagged then that probably wouldn’t be the case

Just a heads-up that UK employers don't automatically run those checks before the interview takes place.

Hi Leics,

Many thanks for your response. Do you think if i went ahead with the Esta I’d be likely to be stopped and penalised? In regards to the form, it seems the way the question is worded now, it almost seems to not include fare evasion, although as you mentioned this is probably not the case. If my Esta was accepted do you think it’s likely they would stop me at the border? Thank you

[ Edit: Edited on 30 Jan 2023, 14:25 GMT by fiesta11111 ]

Quoting AndyF

Quoting leics2

Being convicted of a CIMT means a person is ineligible to enter the US without a visa and a 'waiver of ineligibility'.

But they no longer ask if you have been convinced of a CIMT, unless I am incorrect in my checking on this?

They instead ask the question I quoted above, asking about serious harm to property, to a person, or to government authority. Which the OP can honestly answer "no" to.

Good afternoon Andy,
Yes, this is where I am very confused too. It seems there is a very blurred line..

[ Edit: Edited on 30 Jan 2023, 14:27 GMT by fiesta11111 ]

> In regards to the form, it seems the way the question is worded now, it almost seems to not include fare evasion,

The wording used to include 'crime involving moral turpitude'. I suspect it was changed to its present rather vague wording because 'moral turpitude' is a US legal concept, not one which is automatically understood elsewhere. As each country has its own jurisdiction it's up to the US to decide which crimes committed elsewhere it considers CIMT and which not. The link I gave above is a pretty clear overview of which UK crimes are and are not likely to be considered CIMT.

The US Embassy in London website makes its stance clear:

>We do not recommend that travelers who have been arrested, even if the arrest did not result in a criminal conviction, have a criminal record......, attempt to travel visa free under the Visa Waiver Program. <

https://uk.usembassy.gov/visas/visa-waiver-program/additional-requirements/

> Do you think if i went ahead with the Esta I’d be likely to be stopped and penalised?
> If my Esta was accepted do you think it’s likely they would stop me at the border?

No-one here or anywhere else can answers those questions with any certainty. I'm sure hundreds of UK citizens with criminal records successfully enter the US using an Esta. For obvious reasons there is no data on how many are successful and how many are stopped in the public domain.

You should also be aware that if you ever need a US visa for work or residence purposes...or the US decides to withdraw the Esta visa waiver...questions may be asked.

>I am very scared now but I so desperately want to visit America so i’m thinking it might be worth the risk

If you're truly 'scared' why not just bite the bullet and apply for a visa? It'll cost you more but it will save you a lot of stress and worry. People can be taken for secondary questioning at US Customs for a variety of reasons...and at random too...but looking nervous/worried/stressed will always raise suspicions.

NB I have no opinion about what you should or should not do: I just give the facts. Only you can decide whether to use an Esta or not.

[ Edit: Edited on 30 Jan 2023, 14:48 GMT by leics2 ]

Quoting leics2

> In regards to the form, it seems the way the question is worded now, it almost seems to not include fare evasion,

The wording used to include 'crime involving moral turpitude'. I suspect it was changed to its present rather vague wording because 'moral turpitude' is a US legal concept, not one which is automatically understood elsewhere. As each country has its own jurisdiction it's up to the US to decide which crimes committed elsewhere it considers CIMT and which not. The link I gave above is a pretty clear overview of which UK crimes are and are not likely to be considered CIMT.

The US Embassy in London website makes its stance clear:

>We do not recommend that travelers who have been arrested, even if the arrest did not result in a criminal conviction, have a criminal record......, attempt to travel visa free under the Visa Waiver Program. <

https://uk.usembassy.gov/visas/visa-waiver-program/additional-requirements/

> Do you think if i went ahead with the Esta I’d be likely to be stopped and penalised?
> If my Esta was accepted do you think it’s likely they would stop me at the border?

No-one here or anywhere else can answers those questions with any certainty. I'm sure hundreds of UK citizens with criminal records successfully enter the US using an Esta. For obvious reasons there is no data on how many are successful and how many are stopped in the public domain.

You should also be aware that if you ever need a US visa for work or residence purposes...or the US decides to withdraw the Esta visa waiver...questions may be asked.

>I am very scared now but I so desperately want to visit America so i’m thinking it might be worth the risk

If you're truly 'scared' why not just bite the bullet and apply for a visa? It'll cost you more but it will save you a lot of stress and worry. People can be taken for secondary questioning at US Customs for a variety of reasons...and at random too...but looking nervous/worried/stressed will always raise suspicions.

NB I have no opinion about what you should or should not do: I just give the facts. Only you can decide whether to use an Esta or not.

Many thanks for your helpful response! Just to add, my passport is not British, it is from another northern European country, would this change anything do you think?

>it is from another northern European country, would this change anything do you think?

In a word, no. If your citizenship is eligible for an Esta the same rules apply regardless of citizenship.

Regardless of citizenship, being convicted of a CIMT is an automatic bar to entry and requires a 'waiver of ineligibility'.

From your description of arrest wording and mention of 'magistrate's court' it seems your fare evasion took place in the UK? Therefore, regardless of your citizenship, US authorities will look at the UK criminal definition to determine whether the arrest & conviction meet the requirements for a CIMT.

[ Edit: Edited on 30 Jan 2023, 15:02 GMT by leics2 ]

Quoting leics2

>it is from another northern European country, would this change anything do you think?

In a word, no. If your citizenship is eligible for an Esta the same rules apply regardless of citizenship.

Regardless of citizenship, being convicted of a CIMT is an automatic bar to entry and requires a 'waiver of ineligibility'.

From your description of arrest wording and mention of 'magistrate's court' it seems your fare evasion took place in the UK? Therefore, regardless of your citizenship, US authorities will look at the UK criminal definition to determine whether the arrest & conviction meet the requirements for a CIMT.

Hi Leics, thanks again for your response. It did take place in the Uk. My Esta was approved the other day, but I am now planning on most probably cancelling my trip to the Us and going somewhere else, as I desperately wanted to get away by next week. With the Esta having been approved, what do you think the chances would have been that I’d of gotten stopped? I’m thinking it wouldn’t be worth the risk/loss of money if it where to happen.

[ Edit: Edited on 30 Jan 2023, 18:08 GMT by fiesta11111 ]

>With the Esta having been approved, what do you think the chances would have been that I’d of gotten stopped? I’m thinking it wouldn’t be worth the risk/loss of money if it where to happen.

As I said earlier, no-one here or anywhere else can tell you the chances of being taken for secondary questioning at US Customs. People can have additional questioning for a myriad of reasons, from having the same name as someone on the 'watch list' (happens to a friend of mine quite often and he's got a visa) to officers thinking someone looks dubious to just random people for staff training or nondiscrimination purposes. So there's simply no way of knowing the chances of any one individual being taken for secondary questioning, whether they're travelling on an Esta or a visa.

You are obviously concerned about this issue. Some would advise you not to worry and just go on the Esta but, frankly, if you were a friend I'd advise you to apply for a visa. Getting a visa will take longer and cost more but, imo, the peace of mind would be worth the extra hassle and expense.

[ Edit: Edited on 30 Jan 2023, 19:37 GMT by leics2 ]

Hi All,

I need some advice on Esta application please.I was arrested for an allegation of assault by then GF 15 years ago( needless to say it was a false allegation),after arrest I was released immediatley with no charge/ no conviction/ no caution nothing,case was closed as no further action

Never ever had any contact with law/ police ever before or after that incident.Fast forward 15 years.I am now all settled with family and children.Planning to go to US for holidays next year

1.For work i apply for enhanced CRB every few years- arrest or nothing has ever been mentioned in it in the last 15 yrs.

2.Last year applied to ACRO and had them sucessfully delete all my arrest record on PNC,delete biometrics and the whole lot.

Now my question is should i apply through ESTA( answering no for arrest) or apply for visa .

I fully understand no one can give an answer for certain about risks for obvious reasons but just trying to get a general idea from the experienced good people here.

Thanks.

[ Edit: Edited on 2 Feb 2023, 15:59 GMT by darkknight123 ]

>Now my question is should i apply through ESTA( answering no for arrest) or apply for visa .

As I'm sure you know, only you can make that decision. Some facts to help (apologies if you've already read them in previous posts but it's helpful for others):

1. The relevant Esta question is:

>Have you ever been arrested or convicted for a crime that resulted in serious damage to property, or serious harm to another person or government authority?

There is no official definition of 'serious' in this context...at least, no official definition in the public domain.

2. All arrests must be declared when applying for a visa but only crimes involving moral turpitude (CIMT) automatically cause issues with entry. If you were arrested for common assault the likelihood is that it would not be regarded as a CIMT, though that decision can only be made when all details are known (and we obviously don't want to know them here).

https://unlock.org.uk/advice/identifying-whether-my-offence-is-a-crime-involving-moral-turpitude-cimt/

3. The US does not recognise any stepping-down/rehabilitation/spent conviction processes from other jurisdictions. I suspect this also applies to expungement of ACRO records.

4. The advice given by the US Embassy in the UK is very clear:

>We do not recommend that travelers who have been arrested, even if the arrest did not result in a criminal conviction............, attempt to travel visa free under the Visa Waiver Program. (my underline)

https://uk.usembassy.gov/visas/visa-waiver-program/additional-requirements/

My own opinion? Getting a visa is more hassle and more costly but it would give you peace of mind and stop the potential niggle of worry which might blight your holiday. You'd have to declare the arrest but imo..........and assuming everything else is ok..........the visa would be granted without needing a waiver of ineligibility.

It's up to you......

Morning, I’m returning back to this thread as I’m unsure what to take to my visa interview. My situation is that I had a caution on my record but it was since expunged.

I have my current ACRO police certificate which reads ‘no trace’. I have an outdated police certificate from a couple of years ago which still contains the offence but not sure if I should bring this. Does anyone have any idea what they may ask to see in my situation?

I would immensely prefer them to be able to process the visa asap and would hope it does not go for administrative processing. There is a family holiday in Spring this year to the states that I would like to attend. I fear the time taken for administrative processing (around 8 weeks at present) would make me miss that. My own flights are not booked due to my situation, but everyone else’s are.

How can I maximise my chances of getting this visa processed asap? Thanks in advance